In this fascinating interview with a woman who told an FWR awards audience about the education of girls in Afghanistan, regular writer Joe Reilly asks her about the impact of digital technology, education and trends for the future.

Family office consultant and regular North America contributor Joe Reilly talks to Roya Mahboob, CEO of Digital Citizen Fund. Mahboob was the keynote speaker at the Family Wealth Report Awards in 2017, where she gave a moving speech about educating girls in Afghanistan. She was the leader of the Afghan Girls Robotics Team, who toured the world winning competitions starting in 2017. We hope readers in other parts of the world find this as relevant as those in North America who read this interview when it first appeared last Friday in FWR.

They talk about the role of crypto in a crisis, the fall of Kabul, and plans to continue the educational programmes for girls in the future.

Joe Reilly: How did you get started using crypto?
Roya Mahboob: In countries like Afghanistan, the society is mostly run by men, and women usually do not have control of their own finances. Around 2012, we had a platform called FilmAnnex, which allowed women and girls to earn money by creating YouTube type videos or writing blogs, and these woman were actually paid. They were paid based on their social media impact and responses to their creative content. Many of these women didn't have bank accounts, and if they were receiving money, it would go into the accounts of their male relatives. We would send money and they often didn't receive it.  We had a lot of difficulties, and we wanted to solve this problem.

Paypal didn't work in Afghanistan and Pakistan and in many countries it was banned, and then we heard about bitcoin. We became very interested because it was somehow very similar to the hawala system that many of the Afghan people were familiar with. It was easier to understand how the money is transferred from one person to another in a chain effect, like hawala, so we thought that bitcoin was the perfect solution to the problem that we faced.

Was it difficult to use?
We deployed a cryptocurrency payment system that used bitcoin, which allowed us to bypass the physical and social barriers so we could pay the women. At the push of a button, bitcoin could magically appear in a woman’s digital wallet, and there was nothing their male relatives could do about it. It was also instant, not like in the past when we wanted to receive money from the US side, we would have to wait a week even if they had a bank account. They had to go to the bank and stand in line, but with bitcoin, they received the money immediately. They felt secure and confident that they had their money and no one could touch it. And that's the beauty of bitcoin.

Then there was the migrant crisis of 2015
In 2015 the migration crisis happened in Syria and Afghanistan. Some 50,000 Afghans had to leave. During that time, some of our students and staff left too, and they had bitcoins in their wallets. When they left the country, they had to use this smuggling mafia, who take people from one place to another illegally. Usually when you go with them they will take everything from you. All your cash and jewellery. And because you don't have access to your local bank account, you don't have access to your cash.

During that time, some of my students and staff had bitcoin in their wallet. As they made their way across the border, the mafia basically took everything from them. But they didn’t know about the bitcoin.

In fact, when they arrived in Germany, one of my students was able to sell her bitcoins and she made a lot of money, and she was pretty happy about that. But then the crash came in 2017.

What about the crypto price collapse?
Right. At the time, we were very excited about the platform and the programmes. We had extended the programme to Pakistan as well as Egypt and we scaled very fast. Then the price declined.

At the time people were sceptical about bitcoin and accused me of fraud. The IT industry is very male-dominated there and they didn't like the idea of crypto, and they didn’t understand how it worked, and when it was crushed, they celebrated. For them, it was proof that it was not going to work and that we were a fraud. I had to make sure that my students were made [to feel] whole so that I could keep my reputation. Of course, I lost a lot of money, but I still really believed in bitcoins. So we decided to keep providing the cryptocurrency training and wallets for our students.

How about the rest of Afghanistan? Was there a lot of adoption of crypto?
It was hard to tell, but we had thousands of users. But many of Afghans have no clue how to purchase cryptocurrency and don’t have bank accounts. They don't have credit cards or debit cards.

In August of 2021, did you have any premonition that things were going to go so badly with the US pullout?
What happened in Afghanistan was shocking for all of us. We really trusted our government, we trusted our army, and we trusted in the United States as our ally. We trusted that NATO was there and we thought that maybe, at worst, there would be a joint government with the Taliban. We were told that all of these talks were happening to make sure that things would be stable.

Were you there?
I was there in June. It was really perfect. We could go to coffee shops until 11:00 pm and it was very relaxed and we could go driving in the streets. Lots of things had been changed for the better and I could see that the younger generation wanted us to become more modern. There were parties and people eating out. They were using Snapchat and Instagram and Tiktok. Life was absolutely getting very fast in the bigger cities. We were aware that there was war going on in the rural areas, but it was peaceful in the city. We were still building schools in the country and were even supposed to build this factory of robotics there with Yale.

But then it started to change. Before Herat collapsed, I thought it wise to take my teams out. They were part of the first global competitions and we thought that those kids who had been in the media would feel insecure in the country. We brought them to Kabul a few days before the final collapse, and we tried to get them visas. But most countries stopped giving visas. They said it was because of coronavirus. I also had my team in Kabul, and heard that we could get visas for the Maldives. We purchased tickets, we got a hotel in the Maldives, which was very expensive, and we asked the team to be ready to go. At 2:00 am, we woke them up and asked them to go get COVID tests. Then they left at 7.00 am for the airport. At 10:00 am, they called me and they said there were Taliban in the street. We said, don’t pay attention and just go to the airport. At this point, I was very concerned and decided not to watch any news or social media. I would just focus on the team and hope that they could get to the airport. I was not going to read anything because it was already very depressing.

Were you in touch with your parents?
Yes, but they were in a tough spot. Historically, when the government changes overnight in Afghanistan, the most vulnerable people are the women and young girls, and my parents were with 10 teenage girls.

Did they make it to the airport?
Yes, but it was too late. My parents got to the airport with the girls right when I got a text saying the president had fled the country. We thought he was a real leader and would face the extremists, but he fled. Right behind him were all the powerful people in the country, people I knew.

The flights were then all cancelled because the Taliban was in the city and everybody had this fear that they would come to the airport and kill everybody. They still couldn’t believe that with American soldiers at the airport they were able to sweep in. People rushed down there and there was total chaos. There were many people fighting and beating each other, and my father was the only male with all these girls. They decided to go back to the house because it was clearly not safe.

How did they get out?
We requested help from the Qatar government during the early days of the crisis and they responded fast. They ultimately helped them to be evacuated on time. We are thankful to them for being our most supportive ally and eventual host throughout the entire journey.

But even once they were evacuated, there were so many other people that we knew who were my friends, colleagues, and family members of students who were panicked and trying to leave. I was receiving dozens of texts every day. Hundreds of texts.

How did you deal with that?
I mean, at that time, you want to help everybody because you are lucky to be in a safe place. Right? We were constantly calling and texting and trying to find ways out. I received so many texts and calls from my American friends, people in Europe, all my friends all over. They reached out to me to see how they could help, and I really appreciated it and was overwhelmed with all the people who wanted to help. They sent me the forms for evacuations. The people from the State Department were very helpful, and my friends and donors would reach out and say they were going to help. Many collaborated, and we are thankful for everyone who helped us during this hard time.

And what will the girls do now?
The girls in Doha have received a scholarship to finish their high school and possibly university. They may settle either in Qatar or the US, or other countries. They have a passion for STEM education and many want to start a career in technology.

What happened to your projects in Afghanistan? What about the schools?
We are trying to find a way to re-open our centres in Afghanistan to provide the STEM/Innovation education for young women directly, and we have had some progress on this matter. I believe that collectively we can advance the safety and empowerment of women and girls in Afghanistan in a sustainable way if we make STEM education for girls a priority in discussions with the Taliban.

We are also building a platform where female journalists, bloggers, filmmakers, and artists can share their voice and tell stories of the social and economic situation, as well as the benefits of STEM education. They would get paid in bitcoin or cryptocurrency.

Were your crypto accounts safe?
Yes, thankfully, because the Taliban froze my bank account. I have lots of friends who did very well in Afghanistan. They had power, they had names, they had beautiful houses and farms, expensive cars, horses, bodyguards. But when they left in the evacuation, they only left with one small bag for their clothes. They couldn't take anything out and they lost everything, all of their wealth. I remember that a few months ago I talked to one of them who was at the time a very powerful person. I said, “Hey, why don't you invest in cryptocurrency?” He said that he was sceptical and he didn't believe in something that is not physical. There are thousands of people like this. If they had put their money outside Afghanistan they would have something now. But they lost it all, the houses and the cars and the horses. They thought it was just gambling.

What about the future?
We worked all these years turning Afghanistan into a country with high technology, and we were able to change the old rules. The people fleeing today are not just escaping poverty and starvation. These people are human rights activists, educators, intellectuals, and women’s rights advocates who have had the highest hopes for their nation. They are the very soul of Afghanistan. The saddest part of these evacuations is that this soul has been sent into exile. We will come back someday, but this time stronger.